This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Bridging India’s Gender Pleasure Gap 

BG Sound  

This is the morning brief from the economic times.

This episode contains sexual content and language listeners discretion is advised.

Kiran Somwanshi  

Did you know that 81% of women are not happy with their sex lives and 73% do not reach orgasm. These are the results of a survey. And they indeed sound strange coming from the land of the Kama Sutra and the Kajuraho. In our society men expressing and indulging in the sexual pleasure has always been considered normal. Be it with a partner or self pleasuring the booming porn industry is evidence of that. But when it comes to women, the same thing becomes a matter of morality and character, and comes attached with guilt and shame. Well, we live in a society where menstruation or periods still remains a hush hush issue. So it's not surprising that sexual pleasures remain a taboo. 

BG Sound  

For the longest time we believe that our bodies and our pleasure are property of somebody else. 

Dr Niveditha Manokaran  

The minute someone talks about sex, it is compared to their morale, which is a shame and I think that is why it is tabooed. 

Seema Anand  

But it's always about this one thing about ke vagina ke andhar kya jayega woh hum control karenge.

Vishal Vyas  

For the survey states that there is a pleasure gap also existing. 

Seema Anand  

I think, with self pleasure or anything for self, I think we have a lot of guilt associated with that culturally. Men particularly are really threatened by the idea of a woman using a pleasure product.

Kiran Somwanshi  

So there is a clear gender pleasure gap. But despite the taboo, globally, women are the drivers of the pleasure products market, but in India, they are largely silent spectators. This gender gap when seeking pleasure is in some way being filled by the discreteness and convenience offered by the online world sexual pleasure products get sold, and a host of influencers are demystifying sex for all and sundry. One such company, which is leading the way to fill this gap is TTK. Healthcare, 

Vishal Vyas  

Pre independence TTK pioneer sexual wellness category. In fact, in 1940, TTK started importing condoms in India, we are into this sexual wellness market. So we thought we'll move into d2c segment with our own category of the pleasure product category or pleasure sexual wellness category. And right now you're saying Love Depot launch in India.

Kiran Somwanshi  

That's Vishal Vyas Head of Marketing at TTK healthcare, a listed company from Chennai that has launched a sexual pleasure online superstore called Love Depot. It's Friday, eighth of July, from The Economic Times. I'm your host, Kiran Somwanshi. And you're listening to bridging India's gender pleasure gap on The Morning Brief. In this episode, we discuss the sexual pleasure gap that exists between men and women, and how it is slowly and steadily being narrowed. How did the narrative around self pleasure, especially women's pleasure evolve over the years from not speaking about it in the open to now seeking support online? 

Seema Anand  

It started interestingly, with women in their 40s A lot of them who were either in sort of really bad marriages or just where the sex side of it has become dead. So a lot of them were writing in, or women who were now single, good, been married are now divorced. And were facing these issues from family from society about now you shouldn't be thinking about this. Oh, you have children. Now? Why are you thinking about sex? You've been married for so long. How dare you think about sex now, that kind of thing, because we still have all of these boxes that were put into. That is where we started. It's now actually gone across the board. So there's a huge diversity. I'm fascinated by the age groups, because a lot of them will mention what age they are. I'm also fascinated to see that it's not just from the metropolitan cities, it's from a lot of small towns, there are people writing in in Hindi in Punjabi. Because that's their main language. I have women of my age and 60 who said, I really wanted to explore something but I can't put anything inside me. I've had women of 40 saying the same thing to me. I still get questions from people saying, Is it a sin? Is it A guilty thing to do. I had this one young girl write to me and I thought it was such a sweet question. She said, Is it really bad to kiss somebody before I'm married because I really love God. So she was trying to tell me that she feels guilty about it. But is it still okay to do it because that's what your desires are asking you to do. And they're the most natural desires in the world.

Kiran Somwanshi  

That was Seema Anand A leading influencer and sexual educator, providing a glimpse of the kinds of queries that women write to her. We also have Dr. Niveditha Manokaran, a clinician in sexual and reproductive health, highlighting how women have prioritized male pleasure for too long a time. 

Dr Niveditha Manokaran  

We are starting only now to talk about sex as recreation and not really as procreation because I think male reproductive system are female reproductive system that is taught in school it's all about the sex organ is always connected to a reproductive thought. It's never connected to a recreational thought. But most of the time, sex is recreational, then procreational, to be honest. So I think that is very basic. And I think we are only just hitting the basics with the Indian population where we are starting to talk that sex is not for procreation, but more for recreation. So I think that's a good beginning. That's a good start. And we have a long way to actually go and start talking about female pleasure, because it's still, we're still working on it. But I still feel that there's only a very small amount people who are actually even volunteering or wanting to talk about those things. Unfortunately, I feel like we are in a patriarchal society and we do women play a big role, I feel part part to be part of that patriarchal society because we keep on encouraging patriarchy we keep in a way we grow it in many aspects we don't realize but culturally, we are just designed to do that as well. And one of that is prioritizing male pleasure and not so much prioritizing. Female pleasure is again one of it, it's okay, if I didn't come it's okay. As far as you came, that's fine. Let's just Let's just go to sleep kind of an attitude and things like that this, it's still it's still very prevalent and very common, very, very common. So I think we have a long way.

Kiran Somwanshi  

Now, businesses are steadily waking up to address this gender gap in pleasure by launching a variety of passion products. These common all kinds, like sex toys, vibrators, lubricants, contraceptives, sprays, and many more. There are now dedicated retail websites for these products. For example, my muse, I am besharam that ensure discreet packaging and home delivery and even customized pickups. In fact, it's a billion dollar industry. According to Global market research firm allied market research, the Indian sexual wellness market generated over $1 billion in 2020, and is expected to double its size in 10 years. The online retail platform is the major driver of the growth of this market, with sex toys being the most popular segment. Now with TTK healthcare venturing into this online space, the company's investors have cheered this move TTK stock jumped 5% on the launch of love depot. But what prompted TTK healthcare to tap the space. 

Vishal Vyas  

One of the research we did on 2000 People one thing came out is like 81%, women are not satisfied with the sex life. 73% doesn't reach orgasm. So on one hand, we know that there is a gap. And on the other end there is a definite willingness to try products. So when we merge these together, we realize that there is a need for this to sustain products. And it's not one product there are many products which are available in the market, which Indian consumers are not exposed to. Second thing which triggered this Love Depot is the growth of online purchase online buying and the need to segment in India, especially during Corona and post Corona period. Earlier there was always a restriction in terms of offline distribution for this product, that how many outlets will hold this and all but coming online, that thing is kind of eased out a bit for us. So online distribution channel has given us the confidence that this is time now for us to launch an initiative.

Kiran Somwanshi  

The growing popularity of passion products is clearly a sign of changing social trends. 

Seema Anand  

Right in the beginning when I first started many, many years ago, the question used to mostly come from men. And that shift has happened where now I get a lot of messages from women as well. The questions that used to come from men and are mostly still the same 90% are still the same. They're one liners. So, how can I grow my penis size? Is it okay to masturbate? I masturbate four times a day. Is that okay? I come too quickly, how can I stop that it's literally one liners. The questions that come from women are really long. And they kind of explain and describe all the emotional angle around it. And they'll sort of go into the background of why they feel a certain way. And I think that that's really interesting, because gradually, this is the one thing I've been trying to say forever is that, particularly for women, I think for men and women, both but particularly for women. Pleasure, intimacy, desire, arousal is an emotional thing. It's not just physical. When I was growing up, that's what I was told fast girls enjoy sex. So even if you're with your husband, if you're actually enjoying it, oh, well, that's not what good girls do. And if you don't enjoy it, and if you sort of say, Oh, I'm not aroused enough, you're being hysterical. So all, every time a woman got emotional about her pleasure, it was seen as a bad thing. And even men were taught that, okay, it's a physical thing, enjoy and get it out of the way, which is why a lot of men weren't taught how to pleasure a woman or how to really enjoy it or take the pleasure, that the refinement and the elegance that we're talking about what that kind of offers us. So it's kind of become a particular type of aggressive, violent, dirty act from the way that the words around it, the descriptions around it have been. And I think that that is changing in the way that the questions come in. So definitely, there's been a switch, there's been a change, there's still a lot of guilt involved, because a lot of people writing in to me are saying, particularly women now are saying, I feel like this, is it okay, for me to feel like this, I want to do this, is this a bad thing for me to do? So definitely a shift definitely evolved into women coming out more, and finding the guts to talk about it. And I think it's coming from the younger generation who are actually, this is a generation that's coming out that's going to be financially independent, they're more emotionally aware of themselves, and aware of what is okay for them to have. And rather than being told, this is not for you, or yeh tumhare liye nahi hai and this is actually for your husband to decide, or, for the longest time, we believed that our bodies and our pleasure, are property of somebody else. And I think that the younger generation that's coming in, are actually going to be changing that narrative, and it will gradually change. So definitely, I can see the shift, whether it's enough of a shift. I don't think so yet.

Kiran Somwanshi  

There are some overt changes that Vishal has observed from being on the business side of it. 

Vishal Vyas  

One thing we found out, is the way people are talking about sex. Now, people are very comfortable that especially young people, they feel that this is basically a biological need, and there's nothing to shy about or be quiet about it. And our aim also here as far as love depot concerned overall as a company is that we need to normalize the whole conversation here needs to be seen that people are kind of online buying people are talking about it. Also, there are outlets where people are buying our offline outlet or maybe some 10 years back, if you go back 10 years back in buying condom was kind of a big deal at retail outlet, there is a desire for pleasure among both gender. And equally, it's only thing that is always neglected or not kind of not talked about or not kind of coming open or people kind of didn't want to reveal it. There is a growing awareness among both the segment about the need of a female partner that I think is going to grow up. We have seen examples in outlets now that even for condoms, women are coming in asking for it, which is a refreshing change. 

Kiran Somwanshi  

So what actually sells from the first four or five days of sales data of lab depot, Vishal tells us that most of the products sold were female oriented ones. And Mumbai, Bangalore and Pune ruled the top slots. I asked him if this is in line with the trend globally.

Vishal Vyas  

We will see overall the global level the maximum product which are sold are vibrators, which is basically towards female pleasure. globally. I think this is driven by women actually the whole online purchases this pleasure product category driven by women that is one factor, second is little matured when it comes to overall pleasure product purchase and 30 Plus is where maximum sale happens 30 to 45 kind of thing.

Kiran Somwanshi  

While these products are getting popular, what about precautions being taken to ensure their safe use. Since it is an online space, there are hardly any checks on whether someone who is buying the product is about 18 years or not. branded products come with information booklets. But safety is still largely a grey area. Seema narrates one of her own experiences. 

Seema Anand  

Two years ago, just before lockdown, I purchased something called a liquid vibrator. It's just about a bit of gel, and you put it on different parts of your body. And it just makes it buzz a lot. So it's like, like having peppermint almost. And I thought, Okay, this is really exciting. I have to try this. So I did buy it. But somewhere on the packaging, it also says not for internal use. And so you sit there thinking, I don't know, am I supposed to be doing this? Or am I not. So there's still a lot of worry, I feel around these products. And we have to be really careful. 

Kiran Somwanshi  

Dr. Niveditha highlights the safety issues and the do's and the don'ts. 

Dr Niveditha Manokaran  

If you're buying really cheap stuff, plasticky stuff, you're not getting it from a good branded place, you haven't read the reviews, then yes, there is a risk of it being not so authentically done causing you allergic reactions and rashes. They could break inside if they are really cheap battery life not lasting, short circuiting. So there could be a lot of things if you're trying to buy cheaper product from a non reviewed, not a good brand kind of thing. And I think always investigate before you buy a particular product. Look at the reviews. Look at the price. And you know, when I say that, sometimes people think oh, then should I buy something that's overly expensive. And again, I always tell people, when it comes to passion products, start with something small sized. Start with something very little. Knowing that what is your pleasure area, you don't necessarily have to go something that looks gigantic and last thing about products is its cleanliness, it's very important that you keep them clean, you have a way to clean these products, dry them and store them. And very importantly, when I talk about toys and relationships and self pleasuring people always misunderstand, I think educators or influencers telling them that we don't need partnership, or we don't need the intimacy and toys are enough. It's not that it's not true. I don't think a toy can ever, ever replace the warmth of a human body, or the warmth of intimacy, or the warmth or the pleasure that an intimate lovemaking will and can bring. So a toy is not a replacement for real love or real connection, or real intimacy.

Kiran Somwanshi  

Well, that really is the bottom line. But I'm curious, as a land of Kama Sutra, were there any pleasure products or aids being used back in the day? Or is this more of a modern day invention for us? 

Seema Anand  

There was a lot of pleasure products back in the day that Kama Sutra, talks about it different types of dildos, different types of sexual pleasure aids, there was so much over there, because pleasure back in at least in the time of Kama Sutra is not considered a bad thing. That doesn't mean that all of society thought it was wonderful. There was a parallel standard society, even at that point that didn't think that there was a good thing that didn't think that women should be, should be having pleasure. But then you have the Kama Sutra at the same time, which of course, describes pleasure as a wonderful thing. And even the artashastra actually has several chapters on the core designs and on the importance of the core designs. And as you probably know, the core designs in the time of the artashastra the sex trade was legalized. So they all came under one particular minister that regulated the laws around court science, and they got a lot of taxation from them. So it was a hugely profitable thing for them to legalize. And I thought that was very clever, but no, we had a lot of pleasure aids. My favorite of them was this little thing that was done for women. It has two little silver gungaroos, two little tiny silver balls. One of them would have a drop of mercury in it, and the other one was khalee. And they were attached to a little piece of ribbon or string and the woman would insert it inside her. And as you walked around doing your house work and doing other things, the Mercury would heat up, and then it would start to vibrate. And the reason for the other one was because then it would knock against the other one and make a slight tinkling sound. And apparently that was very pleasant to hear. So it was almost like gungaroos, but on the inside now, I just think it sounds amazing. It's a huge history. And not only this, I think this is fascinating there was a black market in this because this, these, these little silver bells, they became so popular that even by the time the East India Company comes in, they've heard about these things. And people are wanting to take these back to the UK. The men from the East India Company are wanting to take these back as souvenirs. And the locals in India realize that they can make a lot of money out of it. So they start to sell bogus belts. And then there is a law brought out there are a couple of criminal cases around it. This was a huge market. We are told that metallurgy and woodwork was an extremely important it was one of the chausath kalas, one of the 64 skills of the kamasutra. And one of the things that you did with it is that you created pleasure products for your beloved. In ancient China, they had a system as a bridal gift, all young brides were given a replica of their husbands phallus of their husband's penis, it was a bridal gift, because if he was away on a work trip that she shouldn't have to do without pleasure. But this was a replica of the husband's penis. And at the bottom of it, it would either have his name, or they would etch his picture into it or whatever. Unlike today, where a lot of people a lot of men particularly are really threatened by the idea of a woman using a pleasure product. Back in the time of the kamasutra, it was considered something that was used by couples to keep their desire fresh and vitalized.

Kiran Somwanshi  

Wow, that's an amazing history of pleasure and sign of a sex positive society. It seems after a progressive start, our society turned conservative for several centuries, and is now again trying to revert to a more progressive mindset. But as Seema points out, there will be resistance as women look at seeking their own pleasure and thereby empowering themselves.

Seema Anand  

Every time somebody tries to change the narrative, there's a lot of pushback, because think about it, if women in particular, start to find their own pleasure, it's very empowering. You can be an amazing person, you can be really intelligent, you can do really well at work. Somehow, this is the one thing that has always been used to put women down with the day that women realize each person including myself, the day that I realized, the the enormity and the self identity of my own pleasure. It was such an empowering, empowering day for me it literally I mean, I feel that I changed substantially on that day, the day that it sunk into me and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm normal in the way that I think it's okay, if I feel I'm not turned on by this. That's okay. I shouldn't be told ya. What's wrong with you? This is just a physical act. Why can't you the usual kind of thing that you're told the day that I realized that it's okay for me to have the pleasure and the arousal, it's not a bad thing that I'm doing. It's normal. It changed me tremendously. It made me a different person, trust me. And I think a lot of people only realize that on the day that it happens to them or when it actually happens. So you can imagine that if every woman decides to feel that independent, it is going to change the balance of power. And yeah, there's going to be a lot of pushback, it won't happen easily. So yeah, we need to continue this battle.

Kiran Somwanshi  

Gender gaps are all pervasive, and the area of sex and sexual pleasure is not any different. Being a private and sensitive issue, it is one of the last bastions to be revealed in public domain. And just like in all other areas, there is a need to close the gap on this front too what's required is normalization of the conversation around sex and seeking sexual pleasure. It will prevent people from resorting to self conceived notions and shady avenues, the New Age startups, the social media influencers and now the mainstream businesses are doing their bit towards normalizing the seeking of pleasure. It is now for the woman to recognize the desires and feel normal fulfilling them. You have been listening to bridging India's gender pleasure gap with me, Kiran, Somvanshi on The Morning Brief. Thank you Seema and Dr. Niveditha and Vishal for sharing your insights. 

This episode was produced by Surbhi Modi from The Economic Times and Swati Joshi from Aawaz. Sound Editors Rajas Naik, from The Economic Times and Soundarya Jayachandran from Aawaz executive producers Anupria Bahadur and Arijit Barman. We hope you liked this episode. Do share it on your social media networks. The Morning Brief drops every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Do tune in to ET Play our latest platform for all audio content, including The Morning Brief. Have a great weekend.

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