This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Indians Go Vocal for Local Gin

BG Sound  

This is the morning brief from the economic times 

Ratna Bhushan

it's Friday, and if you're looking forward to a perfectly happening weekend, you've tuned in to just the right place. We've already picked your poison, and it's the hot story served called India's Dean revolution. There's a genesis of Indian made boutique gyms that are adding much more than just the spice on the back shelf. Teaching the distilled shaken and stirred revolution of sorts, or brands like greater than one of India's first artisanal gins, which is now outsold longtime front runner Bombay Sapphire, but created that is not alone, grabbing the bartender's attention, or the likes of tamaraws. How to Shop stranger and Sons samsara and derive the latest drinks market analysis data by IW Sr, or international wines and spirits record shows that the students doubled their sales in just two years from around 80,000 to over 168,000 in 2021. The genie is truly out of the bottle. So what's making young Indian School vocal for locals in an event did a Tanqueray or Hendrick have to start jostling for space on store shelves, bars and dining tables with a greater than a tamaraws, or a samsara? It's Friday the 17th of June. You're listening to Indian School vocal for local gin on the morning brief. And I'm your host rathna Motion to tune into et play our latest platform for all audio content, including the morning brief. A full house on the show with the who's who of India's chain 2.0 revolution on the podcast today, Anand Virmani, co founder of Nao spirits in biverges who started it all in 2017 by introducing greater than India's first artisanal craft gin. Along with him, Devika Bhagat joins and the co founder of adventurous spirits who tumbled on her journey to tamaraws when she was in her own words, going through a midlife crisis. And we also have with us Yash Bhange co founder at hungering hospitality, which runs the Bombay canteen or bedroom, and Bombay sweet shop. Yash tells us why gene based cocktails are flying off the menu as the top selling choice for the last four years. For starters, I was curious to find out in a beer and whiskey loving country like India, how did gin make its way

Yash Bhange  

India did not really have a gin to call our own or even a gin culture for that matter. There were a couple of gin brands already available, which were being imported things like Beefeater, Gordon's tanker, a Bombay, Sapphire and even Hendrix were available. They were all important, but they were also really expensive without necessarily being crafted. Whereas what everyone has been building what the culture has been built around the world, actually, with regards to gin is more so around craft. So really to be able to build gene culture we needed a gene of our on. And the only genes that were being made in India at that point were your commercially produced cold compounded genes, blue ribbon and Blue Moon etc. They were doing lots of numbers, lots of volume, but again, priced at about 200 to 300 rupees a bottle. So what's really changed is now we have this gene culture, we have people who like to call themselves gene enthusiasts, and we'll discuss gene with you and we'll have gene collections that for now you can go to a party and ask for a gene and be given 123 couple of options at least.

Ratna Bhushan  

That was telling me all that changed in just a few years. He's greater than brand outsold category leader Bombay is a file owned by Bacardi and other well known global brands such as Tanqueray and Gordon's last year. And his nosleep gin, which blends gin and coffee is trending up to what's interesting is that the non popularity of gin back in time gave birth to another local brand called Tambora was a Sanskrit word. It is a combination of copper, which is dumb, and extract Russ Devika, co founder of this brand shares how it all started.

Devika Bhagat  

So right now this actually goes back to my own preference for a spirit. I used to be a vodka drinker in my 20s. And in 2008, when I visited a friend in London, and I went to a bar and I ordered a vodka tonic, literally, it was, I think, one of the most embarrassing moments for my friend because she turned to me and she was like, No, you can't do that. Nobody drinks vodka anymore. You have to order a gin and tonic. And for me, gin, living in India was basically just one brand, which was blue ribbon. And it was something that my auntie drank in the form of a Gin Fizz. I didn't know anybody that drank gin. And so I was like, Okay, let me go for it. And this gin and tonic arrived with a cucumber stick in it. And as you may have assumed it was Hendrix. And I was like, What is this drink? I want more of it. And that's when I became a gin drinker. When my husband Khalil, actually, who is my co founder, and I decided to go forth, it was not about let's do something in the alcohol beverage industry, or let's start a distillery. It was literally I suppose you can say a midlife crisis where we wanted to do something, which was different to what we were doing as a day job. And as our 40s, you're approached in 2018, I think we were scrambling to find something that we could be passionate about. And so one of the few things that we had in common with each other was that we both were very passionate about gin cocktails, about visiting gin distilleries. It was literally saying Khalil turning to me and saying, Let's make gin.

Ratna Bhushan  

Devika and Khalil went on this incredible journey after they've done some 18 years in the film and television industry. Interesting story gets even more interesting, as Yash outlines the trend that struck route some five years back.

Yash Bhange  

In the last maybe five years, there was a global trend towards better gins being made, especially in Europe, India and tonics, the trend continued, and India always catches up a year or two later. And with that Advent with more locally crafted chains being made out of made out of guava, at a great quality, but more importantly, affordability and accessibility in price. I think that's what helped tremendously. And I feel Indians. As an as a population, we are much more traveled much more educated when it comes to our food and beverage space right now than we were five years ago.

Ratna Bhushan  

from Goa to Delhi to Mumbai, Indian craft gin, as my guests found out, presented itself as a category waiting to happen. As Anand sees consumers were keen and very warm to the idea of an Indian craft gin, something which took him to by surprise.

Anand Virmani  

We found immediate acceptance. And that was was quite a bit of a surprise for us. We obviously didn't have the resources to go out there and supply willy nilly to all states. So we really started from Goa, I stepped into Karnataka. And we were there for the first year and a half in just these two states. And the kind of response we were getting not just from within the states, but from outside from people in Delhi saying hey, I'm traveling to go away. Can I pick up a bottle arm from traveling to Bangalore, where can I pick up a bottle and same goes with Bombay and other parts of the country. I'm wasn't necessarily just linked just limited to the metropolitan cities. But I remember getting a message from someone in Guwahati, clearly that demand was already them. The only question really for us was, would people accept a gin that is locally made, in our experience in all our collective experience growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, what we'd seen was local was a bit of a bad word. If someone said, this is local, it didn't denote that it was of the highest quality necessarily it was generally thinking or that it's going to fall apart fairly quick. So the fact that was not presented as a hurdle. That's the bit I think that took us by surprise.

Ratna Bhushan  

Well, there is clearly high demand and there's an array of fascinating brands born in India. Another interesting brand there is a London dry style gin made in Rajasthan by global spirits comes with 11 botanicals, including toolsy, rose petals, coriander and fennel. Named after the derived region or the foothills of the Himalayas, it's probably the only craft chain that bakes its own rice grain based spirit. And they Shubham canas jin jin jin with hemp as the key botanic When the idea struck Kana when he was on a keto diet, and would sprinkle hemp on his salads, samsara The Sanskrit word for Sansaar, or the universe to was launched during the pandemic, whether it's store shelves or bars, gin cocktails have hit top requests, who better than Yash? To tell me more?

Yash Bhange  

I feel gin as a beverage is great for the Indian demographic because we are a country where it's always hot. I feel the momentum is also going to give rise to more gins being made in India and more people getting to try it out when it comes to Bombay canteen, and and Oh, Pedro, our top selling cocktails for the last four years have always been jet based. So I feel in India, if you look at a clear spirit, we used to always move towards a vodka because the only Indian gin and you wouldn't even call it a gin as per regulations was blue ribbon. So local bars could not use a good gin to make a cocktail. And now with the locally crafted gin such as stranger and sons, I feel more gents are finding their way onto the cocktail menus and which helps a lot in just educating people on what a great gin cocktail can be.

Ratna Bhushan  

While teen was gaining popularity, I wondered how Indian brands gained the confidence to take on the already established international ones like Gordon's beef eater, and Bombay Sapphire Devika shares her own experience.

Devika Bhagat  

Now for the last 10 to 12 years, the genocides around the world has really taken over. Gin as a spirit has come from being a drink for maybe a few older people in the UK in Europe to be becoming a drink for all ages. There's a reason why we were very confident about producing a craft gin in a country like India, which had almost a no gin scene. I think most of our confidence came from the fact that there was a Genesis around the world, that the craft industry whether it was in gin, or in whiskey, or in rum or agave spirits was really booming around the world. And now we have become such a globalized world that trends that happen in one country always transcend borders. And what's more important to look at is for the last five, seven years, the homegrown industry in India is really being encouraged by people who are our base consumers at that time, we were talking about international pouring gins, it was the kind that you would maybe pick up from duty free on your travels, or something that was really expensive at that time a 10,000 rupees for a craft gin, like a botanist. And so there was a gap in the market and we knew that people wanted to really try Indian craft gins or craft gins in particular, though there was a very wide gap in the market.

Ratna Bhushan  

The category did however, have to deal with the Chair of issues. As recent as around seven years back, though it was quick to recover on and traces the journey of gin transitioning from uncool to the new cool. In

Anand Virmani  

2010 2011 When I was working with a company called William Grant, and one of the brands that we were charged with was Hendrick's gin. And when we had a launch event for Hendrix in Delhi, and even one in Bombay, invited people we thought would really be at the forefront of a train like gin, they showed up to this event and said, Oh, wow, it looks great. The bottle looks stunning. Can I have a glass of wine? Or can I have a whiskey or beer? No one wanted to be caught dead with the glass of gin or gin and tonic or whatever else because gin was just, unfortunately not cool. At that point. It was not the first choice or the second choice of drink a it had all these myths. If you were drinking gin, you're most likely a senior I guess in the sense that 6065 year old and above the engine was seen as a ladies drink as a daytime drink or something we had in the gym Karna but really nothing beyond that. So it was really unfortunate and I guess that really held back Jane every once in a while there'll be a bartender who would say are you sure it's a you drinking it? So maybe it was just bad PR with regards to gin and gin culture at that time but slowly changed. Now instead you see things like gin Explorers Club and India cocktail week and massive festivals targeting the 25 to 35 year old consumer and people show up in droves and not because you want to stop or something because they really want to be a part of that culture.

Ratna Bhushan  

But how do these brands retain consumer interest in a category that's getting increasingly competitive, apart from attractive pricing and a vast variety of exotic artisanal flavors. Yash tells us how they are literally adding spice to the

Yash Bhange  

gin. At Bombay canteen, we worked with stranger and sons to create pero which is a little spice gin called berry road pero. And the idea of that came from the fact that especially in Bombay, during the winter, you have a specific kind of guava, which is a pink guava that is seasonal that we get and a lot of the payroll as normally served the pink guava with a little bit of red chili on it. So it was India's first distilled gin cocktail in a bottle. The idea of this came in working with local regional craft creators. So this ecosystem I feel needs to continue where more local craft gin producers need to work with restaurants and bars because although we see the gin market booming the market still is very small as you if you compare it to the whiskey market in India, so you can basically think of restaurants as loudspeakers for these craft gin makers where they can shout out their message about craft chain to a larger database of people.

Ratna Bhushan  

Example, last November Haku Shah celebrated Himalayan ingredients edible camphor, Earl Grey tea, cardamom and timber in gua in trademark style from whiskey to wine to now Jane imported is no longer the buzzword Indian is so for every Hendrix there is a greater than for every Tanqueray there is a timeless and this tells me more.

Anand Virmani  

Same thing happened with whisky where suddenly there was this news that came out I think in 2011 that there is a single malt from India that is that has been rated top three in the world and and suddenly everyone went gaga. And this was a mullet Of course, fusion. So I think since then there's been that feeling that local is not bad has been chipped away and steadily on the international or imported gins, generic in the sense that they're found everywhere. We'll always have those Hendrix or the tanker is in your bar, and you absolutely should. But at the same time, for a craft segment to really flourish you need lots and lots of options. And that really can only come from low industry. We just came back from junior Palooza, which is this kind of celebration of gin. It's a meet the makers event in the UK and every year there is one more gene that we see coming in from India and where in the beginning, we really had to convince people in the UK that we can make gin from India.

Ratna Bhushan  

But with prices between domestic and imported brands narrowing and with excise duties on imported liquor being slashed by up to 50%. In some states, will consumers continue to prefer Indian brands. What's the pull factor that's working?

Yash Bhange  

So there is a like specially with alcohol in India, there's a very big misconception that the more expensive the alcohol, the better the quality, especially in India where our alcohol gets taxed at least 150%. Before we drink it, I feel the gins that are made in India right now have quality that you could sell them in Europe as well. I was recently in in Thailand, and I saw a bottle of stranger and sons in every bar that I went to, and which is great to see. So I think we need to get that out of our head that just because we are paying a higher price for it means high quality. So I don't see to your question just because the taxes are coming down on imported liquor. People straying away from locally crafted change.

Ratna Bhushan  

Honored actually believes high taxes might in fact, play to Indian gin makers benefit.

Anand Virmani  

I mean, despite all the hurdles and challenges that we have in India to creating a new product or to create a new distillery, it will still be easier for us simply because taxes are fairly high for a small but interesting or medium sized but interesting distilleries sitting out in Taiwan or Birmingham or California. For them to start thinking about India as a as a as a potential market is really tough because India's massive and it's got so many legislations and so on You know pitfalls in there, but also from a story point of view for us to be able to tell customers about a gene made in Goa origin, made with Himalayan juniper berries or a gene made with any other terroir coming out of India is so much more interesting than unfortunately I didn't mean made in Birmingham. There's definitely a lot of stories a lot of a lot of flavors a lot of spices to be explored.

Ratna Bhushan  

In March the seal Diageo owned United spirits acquired 22.5% stake in now spirits and beverages for 31.5 crore rupees, a game changer for the industry.

Anand Virmani  

I think more than anything on ground leads, what is changed is the positivity around the category. I think with the audio coming in, it's almost shoved Indian craft gin into the limelight because obviously someone like Diageo coming in investing is not happening on a whim. That's something that we and they deliberated for good nine months for the transaction finally happens.

Ratna Bhushan  

What what next, the space is getting increasingly crowded? How does one stay ahead of the game?

Anand Virmani  

I think you'll retain consumer attention by letting everyone come in. And by supporting new brands. I know this sounds the opposite of what I what I what I should be saying. But there's so much truth to it. Because we really need the category to grow. We need more consumers to come in. There's so much more to be done. There's so many more people who need to have the first gin and tonic.

Ratna Bhushan  

So more gyms in bars around the world global awards, bar exchanges. It's a market that's brimming with promise and potential. The bigger concludes

Devika Bhagat  

if you see the amount of awards that Indian Indians have been getting recently, from international competitions, if you look at greater than if you look at stranger ins and if you look at even us, we won a gold medal at the San Francisco world spirits competition, when we were barely two months into the Indian market. Indian gins are definitely ready to be on the global market. Of course, the global market at this moment is saturated with gins that are coming from everywhere around the world. You're talking about UK alone having more than 300 craft gin distilleries, let alone Europe or the United States and also by exchanges that are happening. bars from Singapore and Hong Kong in Bangkok and Dubai, are doing exchanges with brands. Strange Johnson's and her pusher have done bad takeovers with international bars, whether it be in their country or whether it be them coming into India and we also in August and September we'll be doing bar takeovers with international bars in India using cameras as the base spirit. So I will say we are definitely ready to be on the global platform with origins.

Ratna Bhushan  

As the See, a lot of good stories do begin over drinks. While the gin makers are pushing the envelope. Customers, bartenders and restaurant owners are all pitching in with equal gusto. Together they're putting Indian boutique gins squarely on the world map. beer on tap has been a popular choice. Will it be done on dapsone? Perhaps this weekend is the right time to check that out. Thank you Anand, Devika and Yash for joining me and talking to listeners of the morning brief through the fascinating journey of gin 2.0. I'm Ratna Bhushan and you'll find listening to Indian scope for local gin on the morning brief. 

This episode was Produced by Surbhi Modi from the economic times and Swati Joshi from Aawaz Sound Editor in real potentiality from the economic times, and Saundarya Jayachandra from Aawaz executive producer Arijit Barman. From the economic times. We're signing off and hope you enjoyed listening to the episode to share the episode on your social media networks. The morning brief airs every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Thank you for listening and have a nice day ahead.

 This transcript has been automatically generated. If by any chance there is an error please send the details for a correction to: themorningbrief@timesgroup.com  

We will do our best to make the amendment as soon as possible.